If someone were to ask, “Who is the son of God?” about 2 billion people would say, “Jesus“. That is just under 1/3 of the population of the planet (the projected global population is 6.9 billion). However, long before Jesus was claimed to be the Son of God, Heracles (more commonly known as, Hercules) had that title. If you go even further back, Horus had that title as well (except his mother was a Goddess). So who was it?
Everyone has heard of both Jesus and Hercules but, few have compared the similarities between the two. Lets look at a comparison of Hercules and Jesus:
Method of Conception: The mortal and chaste Alcmene, the mother of Hercules, gave birth to him from a union with God (Zeus). The young (or virgin) Mary, mother of Jesus, gave birth to him from a union with God (the Holy Spirit).
Marked for Death as a Child: Hera wanted to kill Hercules. Herod wanted to kill Jesus.
Performed amazing feats: Hercules traveled the earth as a man helping mankind and performed miraculous deeds. Jesus, as a man, travelled throughout Judea (a little less ground then Hercules) and performed miracles and cast out demons (although he did not kill them).
Death, Resurrection, and Ascension: Hercules died, was saved from death by Zeus, and ascended to Olympus as a God. Jesus was crucified, rose from the grave, and ascended to heaven.
There are more parallels but, the fact remains that in ancient Greece, long before Jesus walked the face of the earth, Hercules was believed to have been a real person, they told stories about him, worshiped him, and dedicated temples to him just as Christians do today for Jesus. Hercules was the Son of Zeus, Jesus was the Son of Jehovah. Both Jehovah and Zeus were considered God, they just had different names.
There is no concrete evidence that proves that either of these men existed, so proving which was the real Son of God is rather a moot point. Another interesting set of parallels is the collection of evidence for both. We have historical figures like Hesiod and Plato who frequently mentioned Hercules in their writings. The gospels tell a narrative history of Jesus. Homer and Aesop tells stories and quotes the words of Hercules. We have a very brief mention of Jesus by Josephus in his Antiquities and Josephus mentions Hercules as well. Tacitus mentions a character named Christos, who is likely to be Jesus but, he too mentions Hercules in his Annals. The fact is neither Jesus nor Hercules wrote anything themselves, we have no artifacts, and no original writings from eyewitnesses about either men. It is very likely that both of these men were either myths or that they existed and became elevated to a god-like stature because they were so influential and inspiring.
Throughout the course of humanity a messiah has been promised multiple times by multiple religions. Some of them have claimed the messiah’s arrival and await another messiah to finish the work of the first, some are awaiting the return of a messiah so he can finish what he started. Messiahs serve multiple purposes and when you remove the religious dogma you come to the same purpose – HOPE. Life is a struggle and we all need hope. We all want and need to feel like good will ultimately triumph over evil and that is what messiahs do, they defeat evil. Whether it is Hades or Satan, the desired outcome is that evil will fail and good prevails. In my prior posts you have heard me talk of Balance and of Apotheosis. It is my belief that our Creator gave us the gift of Reason and that with this gift we can become closer to understanding our purpose. If we have to suspend our sense of Reason to believe in unnatural conceptions of our Creator than we really need take a second look at what is being presented.
Free-will establishes choices. Reason and Common Sense establish balance. When a person is able to elevate their conscience above the calamities and temptations of life, they conquer their own demons and overcome and defeat evil. They save themselves.
© Nelson Rose, The Quest for Light
The Quest for Light 
Hi, I stumbled across your blog today and read this post. I am a student and desire to think through what I believe, so I wanted to pose some questions and get your thoughts on them.
“There is no concrete evidence that proves that either of these men existed, so proving which was the real Son of God is rather a moot point. ”
You did mention that Josephus and Tacticus mention Jesus, and their accuracy is not doubted (that I know of). I also know NT gospels date early in the first century and are not doubted to be historically accurate by the early church fathers. Examples are Ignatius and Polycarp. These real people that lived a specific time…close enough to the life of Christ that they would have called it out if he was a ficticious character.
I am curious to hear what you think?
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I think it is very reasonable to believe that Jesus actually existed. It is also reasonable that Hercules probably existed as well. I do not believe in things that defy reason and logic though, so when one speaks of miracles and things that require me to suspend my sense of reason that is where I doubt the validity of what is being said.
Jesus was probably a radical rabbi who spoke against the establishment (the Sanhedrin) and he tragically lost his life over it. I am not against what Jesus himself preached about universal love and charity. These are things that humanity must strive to do. Its when you start bringing in the Pauline doctrines of original sin, predestination, and sanctification by grace that common sense and reason begin to go out the window and what Jesus had intended to do, which was fix the flaws in Judaism, ended up being distorted and became a completely new religion.
Thank you for stopping by.
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Neither Josephus not Tacticus were contemporaries of the mythical Jesus. Josephus, for example, was not even born until 36 or 37 (accounts vary) CE. He probably did not start writing for a decade or three later. Tacticus is reputed to have been born in 56 CE so it is doubtful that either of then could have even met someone that was a contemporary of the Jesus of Nazareth character.
As stated by Dr. Bart Ehrman, Professor of religious studies at the University of North Caroline, Chapel Hill, NC said, “In the entire first Christian century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman scholar, politician, philosopher, or poet. His name never appears in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! Zip references!”
Jesus is a man-made myth. For that matter, so is god. There is the same evidence for both – zero.
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Good point. They were not exactly contemporaries, but they were pretty close. Philo is the only prolific writer that could be an actual contemporary and he wrote nothing of Jesus. Of course, he was in Egypt and they didn’t know him there.
I agree with the sentiment on there being no evidence for god. Jesus likely existed though. Not as portrayed in the NT though.
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It’s interesting that you quote Ehrman, using him to say that Jesus never existed, given that Ehrman wrote an entire book on the fact that Jesus was indeed a real historical figure. If you can’t get his book, then check out his Youtube statements about it.
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Interesting that you would quote the babble to prove the babble is true. When someone else uses that same technique, you have a hissy fit.
So here’s another quote for you:
Blaise Pascal, “Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.”
Oh, and your post-changing idiot friends are proving what cowards they are by suppressing dissent. But the religious have always done that.
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Like Taciticus and Josephus, Polycarp was NOT a contemporary of your jesus. His birth is reputed to be 69CE and he was a bishop of the early christian church. SO he would have great incentive to invent accounts of the jesus character.
Ignatius also was not born until after the time od the jesus character was alive. He also was a bishop of the early church.
Christians have never hesitated to tell any lie, no matter how absurd, evil, or lacking in common sense or even human decency in their attempt to force their religion upon others.
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The Lord has deliberately chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. He has made it that those who are wise in their own eyes stumble in their arrogant conceit. Does the Scriprtures say it in vain, the wisdom of this world has not known God, God has declared the thoughts of the wise are vain. These words be True. Not many wise after the flesh.
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After it has been demonstrated that there is not a single contemporary account of the mythical jesus and you have been requested to provide one, you ignore simple requests. I will give you this, you are stand firm in your stance of stubborn stupidity and cowardly ethics in refusing to answer simple, direct questions.
Your posts are an example of why christians are regarded with contempt, ridicule, and scorn by all rational people.
The babble is wrong and contradictory in so many places only the deliberately deluded could possibly take it seriously.
“The truth shall set you free.” But you are so willfully ignorant that you would not recognize the truth if it were brunching on your butt.
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Cool! That’s a clever way of loionkg at it!
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Hey!
This was a great post. A lot of this is exactly what I’m reading/hearing in one of my classes here at Indiana University.
One question that I have been wrestling with is along the lines of your statements about Hercules and Jesus Death, Resurrection, and Ascension.
“Death, Resurrection, and Ascension: Hercules died, was saved from death by Zeus, and ascended to Olympus as a God. Jesus was crucified, rose from the grave, and ascended to heaven.”
These similarities in this do seem startling, but I have been wandering this – After Jesus died and rose from the grave he appeared to his disciples and others throughout the region. I know this does sound ridiculous, but if the gospels are wrong that he did not rise from the dead and his disciples did not see him, then wouldn’t the disciples logically not believe that he was the Son of God? Jesus predicted (of course according to the Gospels) that he would be raised from the dead after the third day, so if he really did not raise from the dead then would his disciples still literally give their lives in claiming he was the Messiah/God?
Basically what I think I am trying to say is this: The belief in Jesus’ resurrection has to be the key belief of Christianity because without it Jesus would have meant nothing, and if the disciples didn’t see Jesus after he was crucified (or basically if the gospels are lying about his resurrection) would they have still believed he was the Messiah even until their death? What do you think?
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I hope that made sense…I fall short very often when I try to put my thoughts into words.
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There are a few things to consider here:
1. There is no documented evidence as to the fate of any of the disciples with exception to James and Stephen. (Who’s fates are mentioned in Acts but, no where else.)
2. The entire New Testament was compiled 350 years after the time Jesus is said to have walked the earth. It is said that hundreds of manuscripts were “reviewed” and then voted on by “yea” or “nay” just like congress votes on laws. We don’t know what they excluded or if what was included is even in its original form. We also don’t really no who the authors really were as originally the gospels were named “Gospel according to” not “Gospel of”.
3. Where are all the eye witnesses? If the risen Jesus was seen by hundreds where are all the testimonies to it. If Jesus ascended off a mountain there would have been witnesses to that. Surely the whole city would have seen a body floating in the air and being greeted by angels.
4. Where is he now? I’m waiting to board a plane as we speak. A plane goes much higher than any person is capable of going and still have the ability to breathe. I haven’t seen any pearly gates and neither have the astronauts.
Jesus was a man. He was probably an incredible man. With incredible people come incredible and fabulous stories. In most cases things get distorted and exaggerated. Even George Washington fell victim to fabulous un-truths (the cherry tree never happened).
Keep reading. I have more to share soon.
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A great documentary called “the god who wasn’t there” is on Netflix and I encourage people to watch it.
What most people don’t realize is that the accounts of Jesus came some 40 years after his death. So why, if he was such a predominant person, did everyone forget about him in these years between jesus’ death and mark’s gospel?
Religion does a fabulous job of guilting everyone into being good people and does little to teach about how to love the creator.
End religion and uncover spirituality.
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Thank for dropping in Jessica. I will be sure to check out the movie.
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The question that I ask everyone is not What would happen, but What are you going to do one day when you stand in front of that 100%man and 100% God, that man that manY people denied. The man no one believed he is in heaven, it’s sad that we attend school for so many years but yet are trying to find a gate somewhere in the clouds or in space by astronauts, WOW. the way I look at it is if I am wrong and Jesus does not exist I’m not losing anything but by me believing in Jesus I’m getting eternal life that is what we have to think and that’s all we have to believe in. But lets think about it would be sad to leave all your life without believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and one day stand before him and for him to tell us no you never accepted me in your heart or it would be so awesome to hear the words well done my good and faithful servant and that is what I wanna hear well done from the Lord of lords and King of Kings Jesus Christ. it would be sad to hear one day that we are not worthy of entering the kingdom of God because we never believed in Him, at that moment we will realize that all the years we spend looking for the gates in the sky or space were for nothing. What would happen if we really found The gate would we be worthy enough to enter them, that’s a question that we as individuals have to ask our selfs. Now we all here that none is worthy for something like this but remember with Jesus in our hearts we can do anything, but a true relationship with Jesus seeking to please him with our spiritual and everyday fruits.
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And what if it’s not Jesus.. What if it’s Thor or Krishna waiting for you? I’m familiar with Pascal’s wager and I see no reason to play that game.
Many myths surround the ineffable Source of life. I believe the only thing that truly matters is how we live our lives and what we do for others.
Beliefs only benefit the mind, actions benefit others.
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In the case of the historical Jesus, there is not one contemporary record of his existence. The Romans, who otherwise kept very good records never mentioned a figure who was supposed to be socially, politically, and spiritually so significant as well as publicly performing many miracles; then was executed after a very public trial.
Not until the Gospel of Mark, written from 40 to over 100 years after the supposed crucifixion, (depending upon which biblical scholar you choose to believe) is there any mention of Jesus. If we look at the fables of Horus, Attis, and Mithra, we see amazing similarities. Born in low circumstances on December 25, 12 followers, executed at an early age, son of a god, the list goes on. It would appear that the early church, in need of a powerful central figure, “borrowed” from earlier myths to create a rallying point for their religion.
A Few Noticeable Events in the Life of Jesus
Herod’s slaughter of all the baby boys in Bethlehem.
Jesus’ triumphant entry in Jerusalem, where the entire town welcomes him as their king.
Jesus casting out the greedy moneychangers. (in an area about the size of 34 football fields)
Two earthquakes hit Jerusalem.
Supernatural darkness covers “all the land” for hours.
The Sacred Temple curtain tears from top to bottom.
All the dead holy men in the cemetery come out of their graves and wander Jerusalem, “appearing to many.”
And yet, contemporary historians in the time of Jesus didn’t write about any of this.
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How are things at old IU? I haven’t been there since I graduated (1965). Even the alumni association has lost track of me. That probably means even the CIA doesn’t know where I am. Of course, they don’t care. because there’s no chance I’ll donate money to them. The Alumni association never loses hope, I think. 🙂
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I appreciate this dialogue. Thanks for sharing. I’ll definity stay plugged in to your future posts!
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Thanks Jess.
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Excellent article, I also liked your replies. Historians are great but for evidence on the existence of Jesus there are no authors of anything about him between the years 6BC and 33AD, the approximate time period he was to have lived; therefore all that was written after his supposed death would have been HEARSAY and not eyewitness fact.
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Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate the exchange. Please stop by often.
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It’s interesting to compare the New Testament with some other writings of olden days. The New Testament was written over a time period of 60 years. We have over 24,000 copies and some of the copies we have are only 25 years removed from the originals!
Caesar’s work, The Gallic Wars, was written over a 56 year
period. We have 10 copies, the closest to the original is 1,000 years removed. We have 643 copies of Homer’s Iliad and there is a 500 year span between the original and oldest existing copy.
The point is no other work comes close to the New Testament, which indicates it’s accuracy and trustworthiness.
Lets look at specifics based on the author, when it was written, the earliest copy still in existence today, the time span between 1st written and the oldest copy and the number of ancient copies in existence today…
Pliny the Younger
A.D. 61-113
850 A.D.
750 yrs
7
Caesar
100- 44 B.C.
900 A.D.
1,000 yrs.
10
Plato
427-347 B.C.
900 A. D.
1,200 yrs.
7
Aristolte
384-322 B.C.
1100 A. D.
1,400 yrs.
37
Sophocles
496-406 B.C.
1000 A.D.
1,400 yrs.
193
Euripedes
480-406 B.C.
1100 A.D.
1,500 yrs.
9
Catallus
54 B.C.
1550 A.D.
1,600 yrs.
3
New Testament
48 A. D. (Mark)
130 A.D. (N.T.)
80 yrs.
24,630
80 years and nearly 25,000 manuscripts….nothing comes close. If we acknowledge and abide the scientific study of textural criticism that is applied to all historical documents, the only conclusion one can draw is that the accounts of the life of Jesus can be trusted, unlike that of Hercules.
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I have to disagree. There is NO author, historian. or Roman that lived betwen 6BC and 33AD, the time Jesus was to have lived, that ever wrote of him, therefore only hearsay was written about him. No eye witness accounts outside of the Bible authors. Odd is it not. Tacticus wrote of Nero and him blaming the Christian followers for the fires of Rome. He did not write of Jesus. Josephus and his writings of Jesus are doubtful and are disputed as forgeries added after the fact of his writings. So yes there is evidence against such a person.
If such a person lived during that time frame where is the evidence? If such a person existed why did he not write about his teachings? Granted his teachings are fairly sound.
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There is just such a deficit for Alexander the Great and Aristotle. The idea that there was no historical Jesus of Nazareth seems a bit contrived. There are multitudes of references to him, by both supporters and antagonists. Further the “conspiracy theories” as to how he came to be believed to have existed are more fantastic than the simple conclusion that there was, at the very least, an itinerant Jewish preacher who was executed by crucifiction and his followers believed that he had risen from the dead in some manner.
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How is it contrived? Are yo saying there are contemporary accounts of the historical Jesus of Nazareth? FYI, no town of that name existed at the supposed time of jesus. Nris tere any contemporary account of someone why was supposed to have such great effect, politically, socially and in religion. For example:
A Few Noticeable Events in the Life of Jesus
Herod’s slaughter of all the baby boys in Bethlehem.
Jesus’ triumphant entry in Jerusalem, where the entire town welcomes him as their king.
Jesus casting out the greedy moneychangers. (in an area about the size of 34 football fields)
Two earthquakes hit Jerusalem.
Supernatural darkness covers “all the land” for hours.
The Sacred Temple curtain tears from top to bottom.
All the dead holy men in the cemetery come out of their graves and wander Jerusalem, “appearing to many.”
And yet, contemporary historians in the time of Jesus didn’t write about any of this.
To believe in any jesus or any religion, for that matter requires that one reject rational thinking, facts, and the very concept of verifiable evidence. In other words, embrace willful ignorance.
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It is contrived for the very reasons I listed. There are just such deficits of primary references for Alexander the Great and Aristotle. Jesus was an itinerant Jewish preacher in a Roman province that was certainly very curios to the Romans culturally. Further there were several sects that existed in Palestine during the time the Jesus would have preached, these differing sects would have been nearly indistinguishable to an outside observer. In fact, and I will explain why in a moment, they were perhaps even indistinguishable to those closer to the culture.
Let me first address your point about Nazareth. You are quite correct that there was no city of Nazareth during the time of Jesus. In fact the present city of Nazareth was named so in perhaps the 3rd century because of the the NT reference. The reality that Nazareth was not a city, but rather a sect. What is translated as “Jesus of Nazareth” should have been translated “Jesus the Nazarene”. This reference is to the sect that is also called the Essenes. This sect is readily mentioned by many historians as one of the major sects in Jerusalem, and was well established before the time of Jesus; at least two centuries. Their practices and customs are nearly identical to those of primitive Christians: Communal living, mystical interpretation of the Torah, refusal to offer animal sacrifices, bread and wine offerings, baptism for admittance into the community along with many other ideas and concepts found within the teachings of early Christians. The fact is that this sect existed at least two centuries before the time of Jesus, and within seventy years of his death we find no trace of them. This leads to the very logical conclusion that this sect evolved into primitive Christianity. It is further very logical that the reason for this evolution was a teacher who impacted the community, and whose martyrdom propelled him to a status of Divine.
The alternative hypothesis simply does not fit the framework of what we know historically. Rome was a culture that centered their pantheon and were admittedly antagonistic to Christians and Jews. The Jews were antagonists to their closely related rival. These two external pressures would make it hard pressed to believe that the chief claim of Christians, that Jesus was an actual person, could have been fabricated. The Jews would certainly have called them on such a claim. It is also rather dubious to suppose that a “cult” could form and propagate its message based on a claimed resurrection of a man executed by Rome, if no one knew of that event. Further as such a claim spread throughout the Roman empire, there should have been some denial on the part of the Romans. However there is never such a claim.
The reality is that in its infancy Christianity was nearly indistinguishable from other Jewish sects to the outside world. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, historians like Josephus, Pliny and Philo did not distinguish them from the Essenes, Who, again, they were indistinguishable from in practice and underline theological structure. It was after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD that Roman historians began to distinguish Christians as a distinct sect. (At any rate it is quite amazing on its own that a little known sect within Judaism would evolve into a religion that eventually was adopted by Rome as its state religion.)
Whether or not orthodox claims about the religion of Jesus are true is an entirely different discussion. However the historicity of Jesus the Nazarene seems pretty solid to me.
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Nothing you say changes the fact that you believe because you WANT to believe, not that there is any evidence to support your delusions. But facts and rational thinking must be discarded before anyone can accept any religion.
You bringing up the red herrings of Alexander and others doesn’t change anything other than prove you do not want to have a discussion but that you only want to lecture.
Here’s some facts. Try not to faint.:
In the case of the historical Jesus, there is not one contemporary record of his existence. The Romans, who otherwise kept very good records never mentioned a figure who was supposed to be socially, politically, and spiritually so significant as well as publicly performing many miracles; then was executed after a very public trial.
Not until the Gospel of Mark, written from 40 to over 100 years after the supposed crucifixion, (depending upon which biblical scholar you choose to believe) is there any mention of Jesus. If we look at the fables of Horus, Attis, and Mithra, we see amazing similarities. Born in low circumstances on December 25, 12 followers, executed at an early age, son of a god, the list goes on. It would appear that the early church, in need of a powerful central figure, “borrowed” from earlier myths to create a rallying point for their religion.
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You seem to have made a lot of presumptions about what I believe or “WANT” to believe. Perhaps a little more objectivity would be in order? What I presented is the majority view of historical scholars today. There was nothing religious implied. Consider this article by Bart Ehrman:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html
Here is a relavant quote:
“That is the claim made by a small but growing cadre of (published ) writers, bloggers and Internet junkies who call themselves mythicists. This unusually vociferous group of nay-sayers maintains that Jesus is a myth invented for nefarious (or altruistic) purposes by the early Christians who modeled their savior along the lines of pagan divine men who, it is alleged, were also born of a virgin on Dec. 25, who also did miracles, who also died as an atonement for sin and were then raised from the dead.
Few of these mythicists are actually scholars trained in ancient history, religion, biblical studies or any cognate field, let alone in the ancient languages generally thought to matter for those who want to say something with any degree of authority about a Jewish teacher who (allegedly) lived in first-century Palestine. There are a couple of exceptions: of the hundreds — thousands? — of mythicists, two (to my knowledge) actually have Ph.D. credentials in relevant fields of study. But even taking these into account, there is not a single mythicist who teaches New Testament or Early Christianity or even Classics at any accredited institution of higher learning in the Western world. And it is no wonder why. These views are so extreme and so unconvincing to 99.99 percent of the real experts that anyone holding them is as likely to get a teaching job in an established department of religion as a six-day creationist is likely to land on in a bona fide department of biology.” (Ehrman, Did Jesus Exist)
Ehrmans words are strong, but the reflect what I stated. This is why I originally said that the entire concept is contrived. Because it ignores the established historical method in favor of an improbable scenario which a person would only accept if they were doing so because of a preconceived ideology. Ehrman concludes with:
“One may well choose to resonate with the concerns of our modern and post-modern cultural despisers of established religion (or not). But surely the best way to promote any such agenda is not to deny what virtually every sane historian on the planet — Christian, Jewish, Muslim, pagan, agnostic, atheist, what have you — has come to conclude based on a range of compelling historical evidence.
Whether we like it or not, Jesus certainly existed.”
I must concur.
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Because you think Dr, Ehrman is a reliable source, you shouldn’t mind if I quote him, too.
As stated by Dr. Bart Ehrman, Professor of religious studies at the University of North Caroline, Chapel Hill, NC said, “In the entire first Christian century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman scholar, politician, philosopher, or poet. His name never appears in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! Zip references!”
I say again, if you chose to believe in things for which there is not a single bit of supporting evidence and even much evidence against it, that is your privilege. IT makes it nothing more than wishful th8inking and opinion which is all that yu have presented in support of it.
“Virtually every sane historian on the planet”? Do you mean that any who do not share your delusions are not sane? I could as easily say that only the insane could possibly believe the babble or any other religion. That statement would have as much authority, founded upon arrogance, as yours.
Again, produce a single contemporary account of the existence of the historical Jesus or admit you have a belief, shared by many, I admit, but only a belief. At one time, most of the people in the world believed the earth was flat. This, despite easily observable evidence that it was not. For example, a ship sailing away from the land disappears hull first, then masts and sails last. Approaching, the reverse is true. THis is only possible if the earth is a sphere, not flat. Consider that then, as now, most of the earth’s population lived withing a few hundred miles of an ocean. Yet, they still believed the world was flat because that was what they had been taught. Also, like now, believing what you were told without question of observation of the face was much easier than thinking. You should understand that unless, as I suspect, you have abandoned thinking totally.
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The comment concerning “every sane historian on the planet” were the words of Dr. Ehrman and not mine. I have seen the quote you posted from Dr. Ehrman all over the internet, however anyone who would post such a quote to insinuate that there was no historical Jesus is simply being obtuse. Concerning the quote you gave from Dr. Ehrman, he says in the article I linked:
“It is true that Jesus is not mentioned in any Roman sources of his day. That should hardly count against his existence, however, since these same sources mention scarcely anyone from his time and place. Not even the famous Jewish historian, Josephus, or even more notably, the most powerful and important figure of his day, Pontius Pilate.
It is also true that our best sources about Jesus, the early Gospels, are riddled with problems. These were written decades after Jesus’ life by biased authors who are at odds with one another on details up and down the line. But historians can never dismiss sources simply because they are biased. You may not trust Rush Limbaugh’s views of Sandra Fluke, but he certainly provides evidence that she exists.”
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, however the idea that there was no historical Jesus seems, again, contrived. At this point you are not arguing with religious beliefs, but rather the majority of experts in the field in which you are addressing. That there seems to be no credible historical evidence to you is rather inconsequential seeing that the majority of scholars disagree with you.
You seem to be very willing to dismiss all of this because you assume it indicates blind faith. But I must ask at this point what blind faith is driving your conclusions, you certainly have nothing in way of evidence to support your assertion. Your conclusions do not logically follow your so-called evidence. You have asserted that there are no primary sources writing about Jesus, in other words while he was still preaching in Judea. You assert this means that he did not exist. However this sort of logic eliminates nearly every major person of history. You claim that because miraculous events are attributed to Jesus that this causes him not to exist, again the same applies to many historical figures. You claim that pseudographa associated with Jesus causes him not to exist, the point remains still. We can point to pseudographa associated with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Again your conclusions do not logically follow your evidence. No one is denying any of the points you make, they are simply stating that they do not prove what you claim that they prove.
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“Anything that can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”
FYI. you uninformed moron, Josephus was not a contemporary of any Jesus, either. He was not even born until 36 or 37 CE and probably did not start writing for a couple of decades after that.
Yes, I do dismiss willful ignorance and stubborn stupidity. That means you can stop replying as you have yet to make a rational statement or provide the least bit of proof of any of your beliefs.
I do thank you for demonstrating again that, for the religious, verifiable evidence and logical thinking are not useful and even fatal to their delusions.
The floor is yours, I have no more time to waste on a deluded fool.
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I would simply add that you emotionally charged responses and obvious bias should indicate where you are arguing from. There is simply no logical reason to dismiss the clearly historical Jesus. Was Jesus the second person of the Christian Trinity? Did he really do miracles? Did he rise physically from the dead? These are of course outside of the realm of historical inquiry. However it seems beyond denial, to all but those with an agenda, that Jesus was a person of history.
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How ironic that you should bring logic into this when you haven’t the least understanding of it. You reject logic and proof because those require facts. The bad thing for you about facts is that never support your favorite delusions. Now, go fuck off shit for brains. Is that clear enough even for an idiot like you?
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Let’s keep this civil please.
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It’s impossible to be civil to people that insist upon being arrogantly, obstinately, obnoxiously stupid. I’m finished here, anyway, As I said, I have no more time to waste on the willfully ignorant.
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Dean,
The “manuscripts” are not a numerous as you have claimed and even if they are, not a single one is an original, none are complete, and all of them were merged by people who were neither eye witnesses to the events or the writing of the events. Not all of the said manuscripts are even in the New Testament because the majority of manuscripts didn’t survive the various rounds of voting that began a little more than 350 years after Jesus walked the face of the earth. So even though a large number of partial manuscripts have been found none of them are the originals which themselves would only date to within 20 years of the said occurrences. So no one really knows the actual age of the manuscripts that are being used as evidence or where these manuscripts are.
The New Testament did not exist until church councils began to cannonize is 350 AD – that is over 320 years after the said occurences. The cannon was official closed at the Council of Trent in 1546. So lots of framentary manuscripts were compiled and combined and voted on with yays and nays and we have no knowledge of the criteria used in selection or the modifications made to the text during the compilation of the texts nor do we even know who was involved. I am supposed to agree that this is Divine Inspiration and Infallible? Aside from the fact that the majority of the New Testament is commentary and not eye witness testimony. Saul/Paul wrote most of the epistles and Paul neither met Jesus nor witnessed a single even of his life. His letters are his opinions and his opinions are nor more authoritive than mine or yours.
The Bible is the work of man. If someone were to actually read it from cover to cover (have either of you done that?) you can see how unharmonious the 2 testaments are and how many inconsistencies there are within it.
Now before I close I want to make it very clear that I read the Bible – A LOT (pretty much daily). I love reading Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiaties, and the Parables of Jesus. I view most of the Bible as a valuable resource in understanding mankind and the perception men had of God. I also admire and respect the character and teachings of Jesus as a man, not as a God.
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Nelson,
In that case, as an agnostic who happens to believe Jesus is a historical person (regardless if he’s the son of God or not), I’d be interested to know what your standard for sufficient evidence would be because last I heard, there isn’t numerous “manuscripts” about Julius Caesar, Aristotle, or Alexander the Great as well.
And on the topic of defying reason or logic, Tacitus is the earliest anti-Christian writer known to date. If he really wanted to discredit Christianity, wouldn’t he save a lot of trouble if he simply shared your conclusion; that Jesus didn’t exist?
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When did I ever say Jesus didn’t exist?
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i believe it is possible both are sons of god but hercles got caught up in the belief of his time so he was convinced his father was zeus not god
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Reblogged this on The Quest for Light and commented:
Today The Quest has doubled the overall number of hits that it received for the entire year 2011. Thank you all for the support. I am reposting this particular post that I did in the early days of this blog as it is the all-time leader in number of hits.
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Hercules also killed a lot of people, by accident, because of his god like strength. You mentioned Hera trying to kill him, she did much more than that. After he had his first child with the love of his life, she possessed him and killed the both of them. He spent the rest of his life trying to redeem his blood-guilt.
So, do we just chalk differences up to cultural, or should we take them into account? There are probably one hundred different mythological characters you can compare to Jesus, Noah, Moses, etc… but they all have a lot of differences too. Do you think this is enough to discredit the similarities? Why or why not?
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Your assertions regarding Josephus and Hercules are incorrect. He does not mention Hercules many times. In fact the name is only mentioned three times. Once refering to a temple built for Hercules, once quoting another historian, and once refering to a man named Hercules. I have studied it and the only reference Josephus makes to a person named Hercules is one other then the mythical one. I learned this by reading the context of the quote. He mentions this Hercules having a son named Diodorus. Thus far I have not found any reference showing the mythical Hercules having a son with this name. As a conclusion, Josephus is speaking of a different Hercules.
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I never said either were mentioned many times. I believe only Homer has many mentions of Hercules.
There is the belief among some that Hercules and Jesus and Hermes… etc.. are all different characters of the same archetype.
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I’ve been loinokg for a post like this for an age
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I had this debate before.
The similarities are astonishing and proves that God is doing everything to liberate mankind all across the world.
I have done a lot of research about heroes and their work. Usually about the same thing, freedom. That means free from domination.
The mission of Jesus does seem way more mysterious than what Hercules has done. The question is why. I believe is to teach mankind how to keep evil at bay for ourselves until the next coming and to continue faith in The Savior(The Hero).
Who might be the next savior I cannot say.
Three possiblities:
Someone new- because people this world likes new stuff
Hercules- known as the God of Heroes
Zeus(Lord God) himself
Jesus may have done all his mission. Like he said on the cross “It is done”
For someone new may be the reincarnate of Alexander the Great. Why? Interesting enough was regarded as hero. Throughout history Greeks and Jews got along well and both believed in the equality of mankind. When Alexander came to Israel the Jews surrendered quietly and were well treated. A philosopher named Psammon introduced Alexander to the One God(Jehovah). Egypt was certain Alexander may very well be the Son of Zeus. I think King Philip is in the bloodline of Hercules. Queen Olympias is in the bloodline of Achilles (not sure how), another powerful warrior. Alexander desired to be a god. These are what I learned from books and various resources. You may correct me, do your own research or add.
One fact I’m sure of that sticks to my mind is technically Jesus GAVE his life in a world portayed in Alexander’s likeness. Romans watchout for being copycats.
For Hercules is known to battle evil and my research has figured that Hera may have become a fallen goddesss turned demon goddess and sided with Hades(Satan). Very possible to bring a Antichrist enslaving mankind. Perhaps there were many antichrists in the past. Hercules is known very well to battle the minions of Hera. Its also possible that Hera may be trying deliver Satan into the world also, if haven’t already.
Lord God(Zeus) to return is tremendous. That I mean. Read the book of Revelations near the end, talks about a great white throne. In the book of Isaiah chapter 34 says the heavens will be scrolled up. Could this actually mean Zeus has had enough?
Just a few things to jog the mind. As for Jesus vs. Hercules, I wouldn’t them against each other with many respects.
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Interesting points Leland. Thanks for sharing.
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http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
Nelson, you may want to have a look at this…
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I read that the other day Don. Pretty interesting and probably more true then people are willing to admit.
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I agree that most the stories in the bible are amplified and exaggerated making Jesus seem to be superior kind of man. Suggesting he never existed at all is crazy. Jesus Christ is the biblical name for Caesarian the last Pharaoh of Egypt. He was the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra making him truly the king of kings. The time line matches perfectly between lifespan of Jesus and Caesarian as well as his claim to throne. After the assassination of his father Julius Egypt was immediately attacked by Julius’s stepson( a non-blood heir).Cleopatra killed herself and all her princes and princesses escaped Egypt, which was 3. Caesarian himself and his twin half brother and half sister. The same kind of family Jesus had in the bible. Eventually they all fled and changed there names as it was so common to do in these times. Caesarian is believe to have traveled to India with a women named Mary. If a women took care of a child that was not hers and never had a child herself could this make her a Virgin Mary? In India it becomes possibly this is where Jesus / Caesarian could have learned his pacifism. As far as Hercules is concerned I believe that since Caesar’s bloodline goes back the golden age that all three men all could be related. I think misperception is the only killer to the creditability of these prophets. Genetics controlled this world thousands of years ago and still does. All USA president, kings and queens are on a royal bloodline dating back thousands of years. If you research appearance starting with the kings of recent and working back from there. One detail will become apparent all the royal families contain the blue eyes and blond hair gene. Caesar and Jesus both may have shared this gene explaining the reason why almost all portraits, sculptures, and statutes of both men were destroyed at the beginning of Holy Roman Empire. Probably to destroy and eliminate the visual resemblance linking the two. When I consider what most religions say about heaven. Germania sounds pretty close considering most people think beautiful white filled land, golden harps, and sacred animals. For almost all regions their animal has a natural habitat to this area. Where did the great Romans get there morals or ideas probably North from the Germanic people they idealized. Romans even scalped Germanic people for their blonde hair and wore it as a wig. So if this Germania is where “gods” came from then the proof would have to hold evident even today. Someone should credit what the German people have done for our modern society ,but is almost always overlooked due the lingering stigma of WW1 and WW2. Perhaps type in German inventions to google and truly be overwhelmed as I was when I took the course. Everything from more peace prices in the country’s first 30 years then the Americans and British combined over a 100. Math, engineering, science, the Automobile, jet air plane, automatic weapons even holidays like Christmas. Maybe the most astonishing is what they’ve done with our medication. Ignorance is a curse add the facts, if the gods spoke a language it had to be math. And it seems the countries closest to their gods are the countries strongest in these fields. Examples: India, China, Japan, Germany
Sources: Germania by Simon Windor, The Fall of the Roman Empire by Peter Heather, Jesus was Caesar by: Francesco Carotta, countless mini articles that display common sense, and numerous Carleton Coon books including Origins of Races
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I read the article in Don’s link and watched the documentary show “the god who wasn’t there”.
Perhaps it’s all true. Here’s the thing. Romans, I believe, were the biggest crooks of history. Just think. Maybe they stole Jesus’ story and changed things around to guilt us into sin. Remember hearing this “died FOR the sins of the world”. Wait a minute. That really does not make sense considering what sin is. So it’s like saying “go ahead do sin, you are saved long as you believe.” Is this trickery?
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Not at all. Jesus takes the eternal punishment away giving you the confidence to approach God as our Father. God exhorts us to live like Jesus making Him our example. This is not trickery but power over evil. Some have misrepresented it to mean living in sin. No it’s dying to sin and living for righteousness. Without believe in Christ, the person serve God out of fear of judgment and not love and God is displeased with that. It’s freedom from sin and eternal life as a result. For more info contact
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Daniel at 3474883001.
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Jesus is real. His promises are true and I have seen Him even though He’s invisible. Any other mythological figure is an imitation even if they did exist by Satan to deceive and confuse mankind. Call me at 3474883001 and I will show you how you can exercise faith in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God, the sSaviour of the world .
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For the sake of unpacking this theological declaration – You are saying Satan, which is also a mythological character, created other characters prior to Jesus that imitated Jesus? How does a myth create a myth that imitated a myth that didn’t exist yet?
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Try to remember this is one under informed, possiblyjustatroll, anonymous poster and that there are plenty reasonable Christian ‘apologists’ (Man that term irks me. The connotations are enough to discredit for some people) who will give real cases, if asked. No offense, but some use these sorts of things as ignorance fuel, and happily rely on the stereotypes that result, reinforced but pop culture.
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This is the perfect site for everyone who wants to find out about this
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argue with you (not that I personally would want to…HaHa).
You definitely put a new spin on a topic which has been written about for
ages. Excellent stuff, just great!
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I often find it interesting how strong of a desire some have to believe many of the circumstances around a topic except the topic itself. Some have no doubts that the first accounts of Jesus were written 40 years after Jesus death. Thereby, believing that the accounts were written, but not believing the authenticity of the writings themselves…interesting.
I wonder if I were to propose that the idea that the milky way is the only galaxy and there are no others, how many would say that defies reason because of what scientist have said about something nearly all of the “modern” world has never seen for themselves…and watching a documentary or reading about it is not watching it for yourself. There are many who believe the idea of Jesus is without merit, yet will advocate that for someone to not know whether they are a man or a woman, when they clearly have the evidence of body parts to show, should be embraced and understood as reasonable (and by body parts let’s skip over the obvious and talk skeletal distinctions between men and women, something that you can’t manufacture).
One thing is for sure we will all find out the truth within the next 120 years. Why 120 years, no not because of the end of the world, but because it is unlikely that anyone alive today will live longer than that and when your life leaves your body it is the end of the world for you.
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Whenever people draw up similarities, I’ve noticed, the similarities are either vague, superficial, very selective, or all of the above. The thing is, every single person you know or have heard of can be fit into an “Archetype”. Give me a five-paragraph description of your life and beliefs and I will draw a direct comparison between you and Christopher Hitchens, and prove that if you two do exist– which is very doubtful– then the blogs posted here are likely semi-fabricated by a moderator and meant to grossly exaggerate your true position as a devout monk that has recently called a few minor doctrines into question.
Does your freind wear a fedora, was born in the suburbs, and turns his nose up at Maroon-5? He is obviously a hipster archetype, and it is doubtful that half of what you say of him is true. When people say such-and-such hates Maroon-5, I start to call the reasoning into question. Who doesn’t love them? The idea is absurd.
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Can’t see this post anywhere, page may be lying to me, so I’ll try it again.
Whenever people draw up similarities, I’ve noticed, the similarities are either vague, superficial, very selective, or all of the above. The thing is, every single person you know or have heard of can be fit into an “Archetype”. Give me a five-paragraph description of your life and beliefs and I will draw a direct comparison between you and Christopher Hitchens, and prove that if you two do exist– which is very doubtful– then the blogs posted here are likely semi-fabricated by a moderator and meant to grossly exaggerate your true position as a devout monk that has recently called a few minor doctrines into question.
Does your freind wear a fedora, was born in the suburbs, and turns his nose up at Maroon-5? He is obviously a hipster archetype, and it is doubtful that half of what you say of him is true. When people say such-and-such hates Maroon-5, I start to call the reasoning into question. Who doesn’t love them? The idea is absurd.
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I have studied just about every religion there is to man and been studying for 20 years. I was in a pastor program for Christianity and also used to be a youth pastor. I do know that most of what you have posted to be correct (nelson). I greatly appreciate all the work and research done. My questi is, why did you compare Jesus and Hercules? Samson is far more closely related to the character. But anyway. I do believe that both of these people were in fact real. I also have a lot more beliefs. There are a lot of different religions out there. All of which have falsehoods and truths to them. This is the facts. Behind every story you will find lies and exaggerations, but one thing seems to always stay the truth….the people involved. Meaning that I am sure all of these people existed but in an effort to get relief and hope against the injustice going on and to offer peace for death. If you have not subjected yourself to look into other religions I do urge it. I have a strong belief (due to the similarities and differences) that all religions can be true. It is completely what you believe in. They all want the same thing yet people are so blind to this that they would go against their own religion to kill for it. This is not right. However, there are several missing books from the bible that you can find and read. There are a lot of things in there. Such as during time when Jesus was not accounted for he supposedly killed someone. Then much much more. I am not saying I am a believer in this but I can say from experience in the real world. There is always truth behind every falsehood and falsehood behind every truth. In one such part in my studies to become a pastor I learned that the commandment ” thou shalt not worshiped any god before me for I am a jealous god” originally stated ” thou shalt not worship any god before me for there are many gods in the heavens but I am the god who created you and I am a jealous god”. Therefore saying there are many Gods. So who is to say that they aren’t all real and maybe different people (cultures) was created by different gods? And yes I have read the complete bible several times and know it and other bibles very well.
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Я считаю, что Вы не правы. Могу это доказать.
Пишите мне в PM, поговорим.
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Если вы можете это доказать, то почему бы держать его в тайне? Никто не был в состоянии доказать это так, что заставляет вас так, что ваш “доказательство” не что иное, как вас Peronal убеждений?
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This blog was… how do I say it? Relevant!! Finally I have found something which helped me.
Thanks!
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Interesting article. I do feel that you make a valid point in that in many times and in many places those who have sought spiritual enlightenment have brought forth messianic prophecies and mystery systems. I think this must demonstrate an intuition within man, something deep and cosmically true. I believe that this is just exactly why the message of Jesus spread so readily over the then known world. Something in every mans heart knows that we need a messiah. However the truth is deeper still, Jesus shows us not only that He is Christ – God manifest in flesh, but that we all are God manifest in flesh. This is the mystery hidden throughout the ages – Christ in YOU the hope of glory.
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Pingback: THE HISTORICITY OF JESUS: Myself vs. Srman (Pseudonym) | Conversations With Atheists
“Ehrman on Jesus: A Failure of Facts and Logic ” by Dr Richard Carrier.
Bart Ehrman’s book: “Did Jesus Exist?” is a monumental embarrassment embracing sloppy scholarship. Anyone who quotes from this book will cringe after reading Dr. Carriers review. Furthermore, Dr. Carrier explains why Jesus did not exist: a scholarly exegesis worth observing. (you’ll find the lecture on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUZOZN-9dc.
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Have I made a enemy of you? Because I tell you Truth! As many has denied knowledge, shall perish.
And as many has sinned in The Law shall be Judged By The Law.
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You are the enemy of truth, rational thinking and decency in human beings.
You have told the truth? Never. You’re a goddamned (pun intended) liar, fool, coward, and hypocrite.
What law? The invented nonsense of people like you whose lives are so pathetic that they have to be disgusting morons that want to tell everyone else how to live.
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Because you’re to vain in your imagination to worship God, yes I declare you see your callng. Yet even when you had known God, you did not worship Him as God, but deceived your own heart, and became vain in your imagination, because you deny The uncourruptible God, and fashioned Him into the corruptible man. I say this to move you to shame, that you repent, you are a old man online making fun of a child, calling names to a child. You speak words of strife, and hypocrisy. Since you declare you are of little faith, then do you also testify you neither believe in coexistence.
How can a indivual speak of another, whom he has never met, or known, and give account to that man. (Honestly) Unless he say, I know nothing at all.
The scripture does not say in vain. If a man think he to know anything, he knows not as he ought.
The way of peace you have not known.
Repent, least you be reprobate.
Mdr, you’re going to call me a fool, because you cannot define the word reprobate… That’s cool?
How can you know anything. Least it be revealed to you.
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Yes, you do speak of a man you have never met and reveal yourself to be a hypocrite as well as a liar and a fool. Those are the three legs that support all religions.
Can know many things because independently verifiable proof is available. I do not have to delude myself with myths. “revelations”, and fairy tales to provide answers for things I do not understand. If you are too mentally lazy and dishonest to be bothered with thinking and learning, then that is best for you. What I resent is that you personally want everyone else to be as willfully ignorant and stubbornly stupid as you are.
FYI, faith is accepting as true that for which there is no supporting evidence and even much evidence against it. If any religion had facts to present, they would not have to demand faith nor use the false promise of a heaven or the empty threats of a hell to keep believers in line.
Reprobate? I think you do not have any idea of what that means. But it’s an insult so yu use it because as always, you have no facts. When are you going to play the “you must be gay” card? That’s the other insult that means so much to you.
Too bad that I must again disappoint you. I apologize but I am not gay and happily married to a fine woman and have been for well over a decade.
Yes, you are intolerant, judgmental, arrogant, smug, and unforgiving. You accept obvious falsehoods and impossibilities as well as subscribe to the contradictions and failed prophecies of your babble. Is it any surprise that rational people regard your with derision and contempt?
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Are we the better because we have knowledge? Our society is still in kindergarten morally.
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Yes, we are better. The only thing that is helped by ignorance is the huge lie of religion. You are in kindergarten morally because you refuse to recognize the absurdity of religion and how immoral it is. Or do you endorse genocide, rape, suppression of others, intolerance and an unforgiving attitude towards anyone that is too intelligent to believe your BS?
If your religion had not been suppressing knowledge and rational thinking for so long, humanity would be far more advanced morally and mentally.
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Do you find me odious? Do not be found contentious.
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of The Truth!
Can any of you discern the word prophecies! They’re the telling of future events. If the future could be elaborated. Then this cannot be of men. Yet God! The Bible is full of them, and has not been wrong yet. Neither is it possible for God to lie.
You see the clouds gather and form into one, and you say, “it is going to rain.” Hypocrites! Can you discern the signs of the sky and earth, yet have not known the hour!
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Not possible for god to lie? As usual, you are wrong about that, too.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Odious? That’s your word. I find you willfully ignorant and arrogant about it. Not odious, but pathetic.
Yes, I know of prophecies. Here are a few of them from the babble that were not true, like much of the rest of it.
Christians claim that the Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and is proof of its divine inspiration. In actuality, these so called fulfilled prophecies failed, were false or weren’t prophecies at all. Many of these prophecies are so vague, they can be attributed to different events. It’s also a fact that the Bible was written many years after these presumed prophecies and their “fulfillment” took place. It’s also fair to mention that nowhere in the Bible will you find countries such as the United States, Russia, China, Korea, Great Britain prophesied. Christians will tell you that they are, if you know how to interpret the Bible.
Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of Jesus’ birth to a virgin. There are a couple problems with this prophecy…First, virgin in this verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word “almah”, which actually means “young woman”. A young woman is not necessarily a virgin. “Bethulah” would have been the correct word to use if the author meant virgin. Second, nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus referred to as Immanuel.
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.
Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt’s greatest natural resource.
Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.
Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.
Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
Many times, Jews have been pulled up out of their land. The ownership of their land is still being fought for.
Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Nineveh was never overthrown. Why? Because God changed his mind in verse 3:10, despite what Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19 and Ezekiel 24:14 says about God never changing his mind.
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Christians say that this prophecy is was fulfilled when Judas received 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus. Matthew 27:9 recites this verse, but incorrectly credits Jeremiah with the prophecy.
Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Again, Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel (Immanuel).
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
There is no passage in the Old Testament that can be attributed to what Jesus is saying here.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Jesus states that all the signs marking the end of the world in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled before his generation ended. That generation ended 2000 years ago, and the world has not come to an end, neither has all those signs been fulfilled.
Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value.
This prophecy was never spoken by Jeremiah.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Jesus tells the high priest that he would see his second coming. The high priest is long dead, and Jesus hasn’t returned yet.
Throughout the New Testament, the end of the world is prophesied as being very near, at hand, to be witnessed by those living at the time. Paul often told the people he preached to that they would be witnesses to Jesus’ second coming. They are all long gone.
Want some more? Better for you that you slink away to a less rational place where you can shout “Victory in the name of jeeeesssuuuuss!” Then you’ll be believed without any evidence because that’s how religion works; acceptance without proof.
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Every prophecy did in fact come True, you just can’t understand it. Haha, you would rather call me names, saying I’m a fool. Instead of taking a moment to think on yourself, I do understand the mpurpose, and spiritual meaning of His Word, but again how should you? Least it be revealed unto you. It was revealed unto me through Him, but how should you know? When you don’t believe? It is impossible for God to lie. This is a true saying. He catches the wise in their craftiness, He shall destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
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As usual, you’re a liar. Not one of the prophecies came true. The ones written after the fact are not prophecies, despite what liars like you say.
Show me one “prophesy”that cane true. I can show you many that were not even close. If the babble were “divinely inspired” why would it need interpretation? Are you saying your god is so stupid and incoherent that he needs arrogant morons like you to tell us what he said?
Here are just a very few of those “Prophesies.”
Christians claim that the Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and is proof of its divine inspiration. In actuality, these so called fulfilled prophecies failed, were false or weren’t prophecies at all. Many of these prophecies are so vague, they can be attributed to different events. It’s also a fact that the Bible was written many years after these presumed prophecies and their “fulfillment” took place. It’s also fair to mention that nowhere in the Bible will you find countries such as the United States, Russia, China, Korea, Great Britain prophesied. Christians will tell you that they are, if you know how to interpret the Bible.
Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of Jesus’ birth to a virgin. There are a couple problems with this prophecy…First, virgin in this verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word “almah”, which actually means “young woman”. A young woman is not necessarily a virgin. “Bethulah” would have been the correct word to use if the author meant virgin. Second, nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus referred to as Immanuel.
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.
Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt’s greatest natural resource.
Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.
Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.
Show me one that came true. Then prove it was nor written after the fact so isn’t really anything prophetic.
“What fools these christians be.”
Don;t you just hate people that can produce fact? Facts never support your delusions, do they?
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shall destroy there wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
I think, or I hope. If you would spend time looking further into this, then the more time you spend in scripture, reading it for yourself, and not online, as you are to twist words, or not understand, or act impartial. The more you will clearly see how you were wrong
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If a tree….
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When it comes down to it, you just want to be right.. you don’t want to hear you’re wrong. you don’t want to be told what not to do, your faith is vain, and you have deceived your own heart.
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I have to disagree with you
Creation is so complex, there’s zero chance that it could have came about by random chance. Just think about it. They say there are a septillion stars in the universe and each little human on earth is made of about 100 trillion cells. Yet each ecosystem holds together, from the microscope to the intergalactic, and they continue to execute their purpose over and over and over again. Our universe is comprised of innumerable systems working simultaneously, all depended on each other to continue functioning. If you throw a spoke in one system, we stop existing. Now, if you say there is no intelligent creator and that random chance is the best explanation for this universe-in the face of such odds, I must believe the burden of proof is on you.
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AS always you posted a lengthy oinion without the benefit od a least bit of proof or even paragraphs..
Tell us, do you really get a cheap thrill from exposing your intellectual shortcomings to the world?
No, the burden of proof is on you. Denying that only show more of your stubborn stupidity.
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Whoever wrote this, you know how to make a good arcitle.
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Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
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Thank you.
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